Small business can change the world (and this is how) with Diva Works
Live Chat with Fiona Jefferies from Diva Works
Today I'm chatting with Fiona Jefferies, from Diva Works. Diva Work’s creates, designs and delivers sales offices for developers across Australia.
During this episode, Fiona and I discuss:
Creating a work places that it life friendly
Understand that problem that you business solves for its clients
How understanding the numbers behind the business gave stability to the business and helped them to grow.
You can connect with Diva Works through these links: Website – Instagram – Facebook
Audio
Transcript
Fiona Johnston 00:00
All right here. So yeah, thanks for being here, Fiona, and can't wait to introduce you to my community. And we're here filming because this month I'm talking about how small business can change the world and showing other small business owners how business owners like you doing just that. Of course, I'll start with an acknowledgement of country. So I am currently on the lands of the Orangerie and the Bonorong people of the Kulin nations. And I acknowledge them as the traditional owners and custodians of the land and water and place. I love the way that place is recognizing indigenous culture. So paying respects to elders from that those communities and any other First Nations community members who might be listening today, and noting sovereignty was never seated. says, Well, would you like to share the country that you're on today?
Fiona Jeffries 01:03
Would you believe I'm in the cooler nation as well, I'm Danny, every time we talk down here, and I'd also like to pay respects to elder's past, present and emerging and I give my acknowledgement that sovereignty was never ceded either on these lands.
Fiona Johnston 01:21
My vote, we didn't even know, I didn't even know we're in the same city right now. So that's awesome. Yeah. And you know, something that not everybody, perhaps not everybody knows that one of the reasons why an acknowledgement of country is so important in Australia is because we don't have a treaty with our First Nations people. So that's why we need to acknowledge the country we're on at every significant conversation.
Fiona Jeffries 01:48
Yeah, and I think it's just becoming even more potent in these times as we move towards the referendum on the voice to Parliament. I think the more times we have conversations around it, and normalize it and talk to each other about what this means what what's being asked of non-Indigenous Australians at this time, still, with the acknowledgement that not every presentation was person believes this is the right move at this time, or perhaps, because like everything, it's there's a diversity of thought and opinion. Certainly where I've landed at the moment, is that I feel that it's the next part of our continuing work towards reconciliation, and also that treaty, that all-important treaty.
Fiona Johnston 02:40
So thanks for sharing your thoughts. And yeah, acknowledging how layered the conversation is. And our biggest job as allies is to listen rather than try to convince anyone of anything. So yeah, really excited to introduce everybody to my client and friend, Fiona Jeffries. And yes, we're both called Fiona. So I go by Fi, you go by Fiona, which works out perfectly well. We even both have a last name starting with J. So we are both FJs. And Fiona is the founder of Diva Works. And yeah, I'd love for you to share with my community a little bit about how you got here. And why you started this amazing business.
Fiona Jeffries 03:28
For sure. So we're 22 years old this year, which I'm super proud of. Yeah. I started the business back in the early 2000s. I'd had experience working in an agency Acumen Design, we were doing a lot of trade shows, and that was fantastic and chaotic. And because of the nature of trade shows that it was all-encompassing, and you always had a very hard due date that you had to have things by so if it was like seven o'clock on a Thursday for press opening, everything had to be ready. Luckily enough during that time, I got exposure or introduced to Mirvac doing their sales offices down here in Melbourne because I was living in Melbourne at the time. And I was involved with the launch of the Beacon Cove project. And I just found it's such a fascinating industry, the whole development, it's less construction industry, creating homes for people. Yeah, I think you know very much the Australian dream is tied to that ship or creating a home that you can be proud of. And it doesn't have to just be purchasing there's also so many different models renting, build to rent, co-living and I just found it so fascinating. And from there, I transitioned out of doing trade shows over time into really just focusing on doing sales offices that would sell development. So you the building hasn't been built yet or the greenfield site hasn't been developed. You go to the site Al's office to learn about these places. See your future in front, you know, that's been created and sign on. And yeah, it's a very much a niche industry. And I guess I created diva works because we're pretty awful employee. I think when I think I know everything. I'm always just like, Well, what about we do it this way? What about we do it this way. So I probably had to create a job for myself when I was an I am as annoying as I am. And that is teamed with really loving music. It was a case of Well, I didn't know that I could be in an office and just play Nine Inch Nails back to back for three days straight.
Fiona Johnston 05:45
I'd be happy with that, personally
Fiona Jeffries 05:48
But you’ve got to find people, you got to find people. Yeah, so I gave myself a $5,000 loan when I was living down here in Melbourne, quickly agency job and took a part time job at Borders when that was going around and work on that part time. And I think within five months, I was able to ditch Borders, and just focus on on data works full time.
Fiona Johnston 06:09
I love that. Yeah. And I love the idea of you know, somebody, perhaps buying their first home, and going out to a big block of land and thinking, you know, can I see myself here? Do I see my future here. And really the only thing they've got to go off is the sales office that they walk into. And I just love the idea that you and your team have created that sales office as an avenue to create an imagination for them of what life could look like.
Fiona Jeffries 06:38
Correct. And in all these years of doing it. I've never become jaded about that whole experience of people buying a home. I'm fortunate and privileged enough to do it. But even when I go back into sales offices, like sometimes I'm there the morning that the launch is open, and just seeing the energy and families and all sorts of different families, new Australians coming in to buy their first property, they've got their extended family with them. I've seen singles that have had maybe a good friend or their mum with them. I've seen even older couples buying perhaps their second home and just the energy of going alright, well, our circumstances have changed. And it never gets jaded. Because we it really does speak to that. Yeah, that base level that we're all looking for habitat. And again, it doesn't have to be a purchase. There's so many different ways. However restrictive at the moment with the supply side that we certainly want homes being built. But that that need for shelter and creating your part of the world. That's the joy of seeing that being created has never left me.
Fiona Johnston 07:54
I love that. And it's such a different way of thinking about the property market, which often gets talked about in a different and quite negative way. Which you know, it should be in some context, of course, but I love the idea of the new Australian coming and finding their place and putting their roots down. So yeah, I love that visual. So when you were 22 years ago, you know, you've come from an interior design background, you've quit the agency, and you've started this business with this kind of, you know, I assume quite a level of excitement and wonder. So what was the real sort of impact that you imagined yourself making? Did you think about how you wanted to impact your, your, the world around you at that point?
Fiona Jeffries 08:47
Yeah, I think I had a clear vision in what I wanted to do for clients, I certainly wanted to really amp up the service offering in the very much high touch very much doing what we say we're going to do picking up the phone, talking, solving problems not being that elusive person that you can never get on the phone or that you feel frustrated by because they're not available. In a lot of ways. I really thought from my clients perspective, what would they be looking for and spending a lot of time listening to clients. So over time, and probably what transformed Diva and evolved her was listening to clients and understanding Well, really, I don't do sales offices, what I do is I relieve the stress of delivering services. And once you understand the problem that you're really solving, it becomes so much easier to deliver on that rather than thinking yeah, it's a box and yes, it is and you're delivering all the things and designing all the things inside. But when you've got that as your focus that you're relieving stress it's an act of service. So yeah, a very clear vision in mind of what I want to deliver today.
Fiona Johnston 10:00
I love that. So reducing the stress of creating a sales office, which is the kind of vehicle or the kind of real world world example of what somebody's future could look like. Yeah.
Fiona Jeffries 10:15
And I think, you know, ultimately, yes, it is a sales office, but our clients are mainly marketing managers. And largely, they're skewed towards female or female identifying. With that, I think inhering part of their lives is that, you know, when you come into a meeting, how are you and you hear about, perhaps what they've been doing, and you really got a sense of everyone is, especially after 2009, two after the GFC, were headcounts were cut, and they've never looked back. And the role of marketers is ever expanding, but they're not getting more people. And certainly nothing is taken off their, their plate. So I saw a real, I had a real empathy for them, that they're being asked to do more and more. And this was just one thing that I could help them with, you know, they're on site, trying to figure out where the PowerPoint needs to be that that's our remit. And we're really helping them create co create this space of which will sell out developments.
Fiona Johnston 11:19
I love that. Yeah. I love the idea of really honing in on who exactly is our customer? And what is how is what we do improving their lives in some way.
Fiona Jeffries 11:32
That's right. And in a lot of, you know, so many people that I've come into contact with in business, you know, they're coaches there. There might be working with, with with spirit in some way, whether it's energy clearing, or perhaps it's physiotherapist or health practitioners. And that's great. But I think there's other ways that you help people. Yeah. And, you know, it's clearly obvious, but it's still meaningful in their lives, that it's just like, well, thank God, we don't have to think about that. But Deva works is looking after it.
Fiona Johnston 12:04
I love that. Yeah. And we've spoken before about the idea of you being a kind of veteran of the business world, which is an esteemed and esteemed way of describing someone, in my opinion. So what have been the things that you've sort of noticed or seen in, you know, in those 22 years? And how has that shaped your view of, you know, either what you want to do with your business as a as a vehicle for change? And or, you know, what have you seen that, you know, didn't align with what you were trying to do?
Fiona Jeffries 12:41
Yeah, great question. Well, I've mainly stayed a solo practitioner, probably till about 2000. And rule 12 to Proprietary Limited and got my first employee, so I probably had 10 years by myself 10 years with with staff, and I actively, actively worked against having stuff for so long, because I didn't want to be for other people. I'm not a natural leader, my idea of a great time, is just putting on the tunes, putting on the black T shirt, getting a 600 mil bottle of Coke Zero and knocking it out. Then, the holiday of being responsible for staff, it sits really heavily on heavily on me, because we take it very seriously that I've got to make sure I've got the work coming in for the staff that and they've got great conditions. So when I first started Dave and I begrudgingly realized that I could work no longer extra hours, and there was the opportunity to do better work, better quality of work by having stuff. I said about to Stephen asking people I knew just like, hey, well, I in fact, I didn't even ask my first employee. I was so nervous that Lisa would say no, I asked Trudy, who is in my business at the time as a consultant to ask Lisa because I just didn't want it. I was too worried. She'd say No, unfortunately, she said yes. But I saw, especially in construction, women are woefully underrepresented. And I thought, you know, we can rely on mandates. We can talk about it, we can think about it. We can do nice diagrams, we can have a lunch about it, or you can just go and do it. Just don't hire a woman. Yes, go and do it. So I've got myself to try and redress that gender balance, imbalance within the construction industry. Fortunately, through dumb luck, I've managed to get the most incredible bunch of women working with me. That's not to say that men aren't welcome. We've had men in the business of man. People identify as men in the business, which has been awesome as well. But I think with just having that strong focus, it's again, it's annoyed me I can't build a business around things that shit me.
Fiona Johnston 15:04
You’re a problem solver like you really see a problem and you work out how to solve it. Yeah.
Fiona Jeffries 15:10
So many women, and I saw this with my friends and my sister, when they have a family. It's like, Oh, that's great. Well, when you come back, have you thought of retail, because those hours would be really good for you. And taking nothing away from retail. That's a great industry. For women who want look, actually, I've spent a long time becoming a designer and becoming a project manager, I don't really want to be confined to just something that I can work between school hours, I'm wild enough that I can manage my own time. So I wanted to create a workplace that was very friendly towards people's lives. And I'm not just saying family-friendly because I don't have that I wanted to have flexibility. So if you have an elderly parent that you want to go to an appointment with, you can do that. If he wants some time off, because you need your goddamn haircut, and you cannot get an appointment for the next 12 months on a Saturday, we can do that. Knowing that also trusting them that they are given that flexibility. And we're both not taking advantage of one another it's a case of we'll get I'm expecting you to take maybe a phone call or a client is calling you urgently. Maybe on a Thursday night at seven. And I'm expecting you to take that but I can't give you the same back to say, yeah, of course go to that dentist appointment. You know, you need to get that sorted out.
Fiona Johnston 16:34
Yeah, give or take. Yeah, maybe we should be calling it a life friendly workplace as opposed to a family friendly workplace. Oh, yeah.
Fiona Jeffries 16:44
I think life friendly one, because that we've all got lives. And there is that bleeding into it, even though you're trying to put some boundaries in. We've just got to do better than what the model is. And thankfully, COVID has shown that wow, look, we haven't all fallen apart, like every business can still happen. Everyone's watching on the lounge, watching bowl and the beautiful. Most people are genuine, they want to contribute. They want to have purpose. They they want to do great work. And so
Fiona Johnston 17:18
yeah, I love that. And, you know, I think you've started the business with this idea of, you know, how can I create these amazing sales offices, then you've evolved to realize, hey, I'm actually relieving the stress of these amazing women who are working as marketing managers inside construction businesses, to then realizing that you can also have an impact as an employer. And you can choose women and men and non binary and other genders. You can accommodate their lives within your business. In those 22 years, have there have been other ways that you found you've been able to make an impact perhaps in small or big ways? I'm really interested to know, yeah, what? What kind of opportunities have come your way? Or how have you put yourself in a position to be able to address other, you know, problems in inverted commas or things that you wanted to improve around you?
Fiona Jeffries 18:23
For sure. Well, I think one of the good ways is being able to give back by donations to charities that we're very much aligned with. So yeah, we do that every year at Christmas time. Plus, during the year when there's certain natural disasters or other times that you just think here, it's time to dig in and donate. So I've been really privileged to be able to, and that's all off the back of the Diva doing their most incredible and brilliant work is making relations to two organizations and charities that may need that. The other thing that we did several years ago with the help of Jade McKenzie, she reached out, we knew each other through a business group. And she was consulting at that stage to a refugee group, based here in Melbourne that we're doing clothing, textiles, all sorts of things like for new refugees in the country to give them a start. And so he reached out and said, Hey, can we use some of your design prowess to just transform the space to make it easier? So we went there and it was like an Aladdin's cave of fabrics everywhere and tables. So we came up with a design and then we paid for the works to be done. So that they had a better workspace so that they could do better work. So that was a real, a real thrill as well.
Fiona Johnston 19:47
Wow. I didn't know that. That what a beautiful way to contribute.
Fiona Jeffries 19:53
Yeah, it was so it's, you know, it's one thing to talk about all these things. But I think yeah, when we're out able to actually do something and improve the way that people were working, and give them a better surrounding organization so they could see all the wonderful fabrics they had. It worked really well.
Fiona Johnston 20:14
I love that. And sometimes, you know, making donations and being able to contribute financially can be really fantastic. And that's what a lot of organizations need. And there's also a real place for kind of getting your hands dirty, and actually getting involved in an organization, and physically being part of a movement or, you know, an experience or a venue like you did there. And I imagine that all of the Diva’s really enjoyed being part of that.
Fiona Jeffries 20:48
That's right. Yeah, they did. It was just a great feeling. Whatever we gave, we got back tenfold in just the the good vibes, knowing that we yeah, we did something good here.
Fiona Johnston 20:59
I love that. And so as a business veteran, you know, understanding that you want to make an impact, and you want to be a force for good in the world, and that you're a small business, which gives you a lot of flexibility. As well, as you know, the constraints have been of, you know, a particular size. We're not the National Australia Bank, in terms of our potential rate. So how has understanding your finances and or kind of working on your business, not just with me, but perhaps with other in other settings as well? How has understanding your business and your finances impacted your ability to use Diva as a vehicle for change?
Fiona Jeffries 21:51
Yeah, well, I think even though you said it doesn't have to just be about how I approach with you. I think, largely, it has been a transformation process with you. Because you're able to speak my language, I think accountants as great as they are. They speak accountancy, so they must assume a certain level of knowledge. Introduce me to the joys of the balance sheet, who knew? Are you I've got I've got what? Tax Liabilities? Oh, that's interesting. Because up until then, I'd been looking at about the bank account, and all the funds go in and out of that. And just thinking, I don't know where I'm sitting here, like, have I got, I can see a bunch of money. Yay. But hang on, how much of that is BAS? How much is potential tax for say PAYG superannuation? How much of that have I got in there for suppliers? So working with you, to give me a calmness of going, Oh, my God, like looking at the bank account? Go, I think I'm okay. I don't know. Maybe I'm okay. And then just going. My poor brain isn't thinking that way. So I will just keep on going. I think if you've got solid foundations, and you've also got the ability to have someone in your corner like you that can explain to someone who is not from an accounting background, hey, this is what this line item means. And this is what you can do with it. That was so helpful in me feeling calmer about the business and being able to make decisions around staffing, pay increases. And even having your knowledge because I only know my business, my business. I don't know, like a Yes, I suppose I could read all the annual reports go out. But my time on this planet, it's very limited. Got to do that. Because I know my business, it's really helpful to have your experience where you're in lots of different businesses, and you can say, look, you're running a lean business, that, you know, when when you work with other companies, this is a lean business, rather than me thinking, do I need to strip costs out? Do I need to that, you know, what do I do in the way of, say, computer subscriptions like Adobe? Are we all right? Is that on track? Or is that on trend? Even to have you have that wider view and going no, this is okay. This is an even benchmarking like this is the type of profit you can expect in this industry. This is what we need to aim for. Having all of that gives you a solid base, so I'm no longer going we can employ someone. What about if we just stop everyone using computers? Can we go back to the drawing table? It's that kind of service if you're able to make good decisions rather than reactive ones.
Fiona Johnston 24:43
Yeah, I love that. I think when people start or when business owners start to see their business as a kind of pie, and you know the income is the pie and how do I split that up between paying for product or manufacturing people? Expenses, the ATO and then In this elusive thing called profit. And, yeah, I think it's amazing when I can teach business owners how to see their businesses that pie. And I've seen that it can be really transformative in terms of knowing, you know, I've actually got a pot of money that I can use for things that are important to me, whether that's giving my team a pay rise, or whether it's making a donation or whether it's, you know, giving some diva time to an organization that we're all, you know, on board with. I think if you don't know what's happening with your finances, and you don't understand how they fit together, it's really difficult to understand how to prioritize being a force for good in the world.
Fiona Jeffries 25:47
Yeah, for sure. And that's where I was for a lot of years. And really, what we've been only working now for a year together. So that's a lot of yours just kind of living on your last nerve thinking. I think we're okay. And yeah, props also to past Fiona for maybe skating through on the bit land, knowledge. But everything is in when you're running a business is about personal growth, whether you like it or not. And that was definitely a place that I needed to step into.
Fiona Johnston 26:17
I love that. Yeah, I think one of the things that I love doing for my clients is reassuring them, that they're doing a really great job.
Fiona Jeffries 26:26
Yeah, I think that's my first question to you every time we kind of start-up, am I doing okay?
Fiona Johnston 26:31
Yeah. I got a cold start this month. It's right is
Fiona Jeffries 26:36
I think that was even where I started a year ago, just saying, Do I have a business here? Because it just like you're seeing money coming out of the counts, we're not broke? We're not. We're not skinned? With? What's the definition of doing really well. And that it was really helpful for you even to share? Well, where do you want to go? Like, what do you want to do with your team? How do you want exponential growth? Or you're going to keep it the size that you are now? Are you going to downsize? There were just all of those options on the table. And it's just really helpful talking about what was possible, because you could look at the figures and help me understand what was possible.
Fiona Johnston 27:15
Yeah, I love that. And while we're talking about you said something earlier about how you know, you only not know your business, and you know, how your business operates. And then the only other thing that, you know, you know, the collective you're not just you is what we see as kind of income claims in the sort of Instagram world or the internet of things. So tell me about your experience of yeah, just seeing other people talk about their business in a financial way.
Fiona Jeffries 27:49
Yeah, just as the advice is never read the comment section. Never take in the seven figure, six figure, 10 times exponential growth, malarkey that is out there and seems to be all persuasive at the moment. Because everyone's thinking, Is there a recession coming and everything and this is our new tagline that you go to 10 times your growth? By buying this program by coming into our mastermind. Ah, geez, so six, figure seven figure. Great. But what's your profit? And you've taught me that like, you can have six figures? Yeah, you can have eliminating billion figures. Yes. But are you making a profit? And revenue is different to profit? And I think a lot of these claims are generated around. Yeah. And here knowing even the backstory to some of these companies. A lot of them are based around these big figures that lure you in God, you know, yes, I'd like to make six figures. Yes, I make to like seven, eight figures. And you know, there's that twinge going, yeah, I could do so much more. But I know in the back ends of some of these companies, not all, but some of them are paying their staff shit wages. It might be creating wealth, but it seems to be very much skewed towards their own, or creating this vision of wealth. I think back in the olden days, when I started a business, you were just a business owner. Now anyone who considered home and sell MLM products, like some sort of ionizer that might transform the vibe within the place, and it's going to ward off COVID is now called an entrepreneur. I would never call myself an entrepreneur because to me, that indicates a certain level of risk that I've never felt comfortable with. I don't want to play with people's lives. I just want a nice steady business, no freak outs, no sudden surprises just a nice steady business and So there's an It's, um, deeply unsexy, but it's the basics to me, it's having a business that's aligned with your values, doing your best work being of service. Just generally being a good human as far as you can't be provoked by the likes of Tony Abbott or anyone on Sky News. And just trying to live a good a good life and have a business that is a force for good, as opposed to I'm just I'm looking to sign people up for the multi level marketing. Now that now I've taught you how to do six figures, let's go for seven figures and Oh, you didn't reach that? Well, that's a shame. Let me pull you back into this mastermind. It's, it's easy to handle and I think there's also a part about that my partner Graham has been really helpful to help me understand is that I am my business actually create something at the end of the day, I can stand in something that I've been, I've been a part of that my team have delivered and put images into it's a 3d it's something you can touch and feel.
Fiona Johnston 31:09
Physical thing.
Fiona Jeffries 31:11
Yeah, that's it. And that's not to take away from people like physiotherapists, tarot card readers, or or whatever you're doing that may not be tangible. But that's a different sort of business to an internet marketing business that might just be producing a program or a product online.
Fiona Johnston 31:28
Yeah, it's interesting. You said a few things there that I'd like to unpack. The first is the word entrepreneur. So the word entrepreneur means somebody who is running a business with a high-risk profile, with a high-risk of growth. So an entrepreneur is actually somebody that's taking huge risks in order for huge gain. There's actually very few of those kinds of business owners and those kinds of businesses in the world. It's, you know, I'm making this number up, but it's less than 1% of businesses total it yet we hear our worship this term entrepreneur. And I think a lot of people don't understand that. That's the sort of, you know, proper definition of an entrepreneur, I think, you know, in practice, it probably means something slightly different to everyone. And I think being entrepreneurial, is in a slight way, something different from being an entrepreneur. So entrepreneurial is perhaps a little softer. It's about being creative with your solution, seeing problems, finding interesting ways to solve them. So yeah, I totally agree with you that the word entrepreneur is used in way too many contexts. And the other thing that I want to unpack a little more, as well as this idea of the online business owner. So, you know, the internet has opened up huge opportunities for business ownership. And the people that has benefited the most, some would say, arguably, is women. Because the ability to start a business now requires an internet connection, and a phone, or an internet connection and a laptop. And I applaud that side of online business, that those barriers to entry that used to exist in the business world have evaporated. The downside of that is that anyone can become an online business owner. So we have all of these different products and models and methods and ideologies all sort of floating around in this kind of online business world. And, yeah, I really think it can be difficult to differentiate between a sort of legitimate business owner and somebody who perhaps isn't doesn't have the best intentions, or is it really sort of creating anything real.
Fiona Jeffries 34:07
Yeah. You've, you've said a lot of things that I've noticed over the last few years, and you're right, like, that's great, but the barriers to entry for people that may not be able-bodied, can participate in the workforce, and for women to that may be working around different demands on them. I think where I jump off is the whole. I mean, this was intentional multilevel marketing or social selling, however you want to do it that I'm going to recruit you and teach you how to do this so that you can do your own program that can teach other women how to do this as well. And it's really built on these strong ideas that everyone can have a six figure business or even a seven figure all you have to do is follow the steps. If you don't follow these steps, then you won't have it. Or if you've failed, it's because you just didn't want it hard enough, or you didn't manifest hard enough. Yes. And I purchase really gets my goat. Because the even there are no guarantees in business. For example, like, I used to be in trade shows during COVID, so many businesses that I knew from that industry, hadn't done anything wrong, but their business was shut down by the government, there were no trade shows. So you can have a business that you think going along, and then suddenly, it's gone. Even in China, the great example of them having all of those businesses that would teach your child and do extra tutoring on the side, the Chinese government shut that down this is not in line with the how the government's sees society working that some people are able to access a higher level of service for their children and help their children. We want it very, we want it very egalitarian. So you can totally be in that space, and it can expect from underneath you. But that idea that all you need is to sit at home with an internet connection, you can work from anywhere laptop, laptop, laptop, and you're going to create this six-figure business. And if you don't, it's because you didn't work hard enough, and you don't have the right infestation. But luckily enough, I have this manifestation cause so I'm going to clear energy blocks. If you just bought this course and it travelled wild. Yeah, that's what gets sold. Because everyone, I know what I'm like, and I don't even have an online business. I see these things. Yeah, yes, yeah.
Fiona Johnston 36:45
Maybe that's $797 course is what's missing in my life.
Fiona Jeffries 36:50
You know, because they really work on those. Those those triggers, like who doesn't want to have a successful business? Who doesn't want to impact the world in a positive way? Or? Yeah, and do their best work so that they're putting all those triggers upfront. But really, when you get inside, it's just empty promises designed you just to keep on feeding that industry. And the only way you can get ahead is by creating that of yourself, and then you've got to bring more people in. So yeah.
Fiona Johnston 37:18
Yeah. Wild, I think, you know, multi-level marketing as a concept isn't necessarily the problem. I think, the fact that I believe this is still true that something like 80% of the revenue for multilevel marketing companies is about recruiting others to sell, it's not actually about selling the product in inverted commas. And that's the bit that I feel is what is, you know, disappointing and strange about those kinds of models. And that's what's being replicated in this online business model where I, you pay me to learn how to run a course, which is what I did for you. And now then you go and learn how to run a course, teaching others to run a course. And then they'll go and do a course to run, teach others how to run a quote, there's no end product. No. So there's nothing being created at the end. Other than sales funnels, and you know, empty promises and manipulative language and, you know, the neuro linguistic programming kind of end of town, which could be used as an amazing way to improve the world, but often, you know, those kind of manipulative ways of sort of coercing somebody into a sale. They're all what's at play in those kinds of sales, funnels and sales pages. So sure, yeah. Unfortunately, I think those kinds of businesses are here to stay, at least for a while.
Fiona Jeffries 38:49
I think they are, but I'm enjoying seeing some more voices come into the space, which challenges and unpack some of those ideas and, and also the refinement of even some people that have maybe online businesses, but are very intentional, and continuing to go, Well, maybe it's not so much about pushing that pain point. And over again, perhaps where we need to go is look at the positives that we're creating, rather than rather than do that checklist of you feeling tired and overwhelmed. Are you at the end of the day, exhausted and wish you could be making more money? It's more, there's been too much of that. And it's more of a focus on? Yeah, let's let's change up that because we're not wanting to peep people make people feel worse. Show them the possibility of stuff.
Fiona Johnston 39:38
That's possible. I think that's a really great, great segue to ask you, whether there has been, you know, are there other brands in the market that you say that you think are doing a really great job? They might be in the same industry as you or they might be something that you use as a consumer. So are there any brands out there that you think you're doing a really great job?
Fiona Jeffries 40:02
Okay, yeah, I look, there's all my clients are amazing, I'll pick this one because it's been my longest relationship Mirvac. And that's not to take away from all the other great brands that I work with. But it's just because I've been with them for the longest amount of time. So I've seen their journey over two years. So 22 years of working with Mirvac. And what I love about them is their, their commitment to excellence, they never rest on their laurels. It's never a case of when we're doing a project are you remember, this man will just do it like that. They're always wanting to reinvent, they're always wanting to push it forward. More than that, though, like, I get to, I get to see the insides of a lot of my clients businesses. On the ground, like I see how things are made Mirvac’s quality is exceptional. You know, you walk on a worksite. And everything is clean and pristine. And that's even when they're constructing. Because it's it everyone has that pride of workmanship, or work people ship. That trend that goes across the whole entire board. So I think something like that, and it's been recently, recently, the CEO for many years, Susan Horowitz Lord, I hope I've got that right, I always get my words mixed up a little bit. She's was the CEO, she's just stepped down and for her to hold the business together through COVID, through the tough times after the GFC and still have a very positive impact, like the team that she's created and empowered to make it a life-positive experience for all the team like if her team go out on that leave or maternity leave. They're welcome back. They arrive. Just think big props to Mirvac I can, it's a thrill to be able to work with that, and also see how a big company can then take big ideas and make it applicable to everyone in that in that industry, and then also positively impact on me too. So yeah, selling 22 years and to maintain a standard in the construction industry. That's big props.
Fiona Johnston 42:12
Love that. You don't often hear people wax lyrical about big corporates, being, you know, good corporate citizens in a real sense. So yeah, love hearing about that. Anyone you know, in different spaces, or kind of smaller businesses that you really have a crush on?
Fiona Jeffries 42:33
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Mecca. I love my skincare. I love my makeup. And I just think even the way that Jo Hogan has created that business. She hasn't listed it. And I think that idea of taking an idea and bootstrapping, and you know, putting funds back into the development of spaces, brands, people has been really incredible. I've loved the diversity of images that she used as a people, it isn't just use a 17-year-old to sell you anti-aging cream, I mean, give me a break. I love the diversity of people that and also that she's got in the store, that's, that's helping you out. And there's never any pressure to buy either. If you're just going and just got heard about this product? Is it any good? It's just like for you? No, no, because you know, you don't need this, this is more, you know, this is something I'd be looking for you. They give you real advice rather than that. Oh, yes, yes, have that, that's really great. You’ll love it.
Fiona Johnston 43:36
That's great. Awesome. I love that. And I think having that diversity of, you know, age-appropriate examples of how to use a product or how to wear a garment or how to, you know, drive a car, or, you know, seeing different people of different ages, backgrounds, abilities, genders, you know, that are actually appropriate to the target market, I feel is so important. And I think one thing that a lot of brands do wrong, in my opinion, is that they use talent and actors that are too young to really form a connection point with the target market. So if you are marketing to 50 to 60 year old women, for example, using a person who's 22 as the model for that garment, or as the, you know, you know, there's a particular brand, which I won't name, but they make shoes that are sort of orthopedically fantastic. And all of their models are extremely tall, thin women who presenters very young, and I think how many of the target market fit into that category, and I would assume that it would be quite as very small proportion of that brand's audience would be the people represented in the model. So yeah, I think that's a really important point to it's not just about what you're doing inside your business, it's also those kinds of small decisions that you make in your outward marketing.
Fiona Jeffries 45:20
And it's the same with activewear, right? We're such a women of all ages, all sizes, abilities, where we live in active wear. But yet, most of that advertising is generated towards the, the early 20s. And God bless. But yeah, the rest of us, man, we are on our reformer give. Show us some love. Yeah, exactly.
Fiona Johnston 45:39
Yeah, it's about putting, building that connection between the target consumer, and the person showing us how to use it. Yeah. I love that. And in a similar vein, can you remember any particular person or a quote, or a book or multiples of those that has helped to inspire you or to keep you going in your business journey of 22 years?
Fiona Jeffries 46:07
Yeah. Oddly enough, it's a bit of point of departure. It isn't a Richard Branson book or any of those leaning any of that, you know, it's, it's a very generic way of thinking. I'm lucky. I'm a bit of a vampire of taking peoples ideas.
Fiona Johnston 46:28
But you know, just so say sponge as my Mum would say.
Fiona Jeffries 46:32
Rather than this life plan out of view, but just collecting, even from different times that you might think we've got a problem in mind. And someone will say something completely different. And that finally is the answer. It's kind of like you need to keep the channel open. But I take inspiration a lot from probably both my clients and what they're giving me in feedback with how I can be of more service to them, or what's working well for them. Also, I guess from the Diva’s themselves, I take a lot from him seeing how they work, and how I can shape the business to better support that or work towards supporting that. Yeah, it's people like you like picking your advisors? Well, I think I've had to get more intentional about who am I getting advice from, and learning to try and filter out voices, if you if you don't have a small business, creating something, then it's probably not a good fit for the advice that you're gonna be wanting to give me. You want the people that have got that have real life experience. It's kind of a bit of off the track. Something that has been enduring, though, throughout the whole entire time has been musicians. Yes. I love live music. And yeah, like, yeah, there's just so many songs that I think of that I helpful in different times. And people talk about a word for the year. I don't have words of the year, I have songs of the year, and this year, it's Avalon Snippers. Guided by Angels, yes. But it's not something when you listen to the lyrics. It's not something lofty. It talks about what's in you, that that's what you've been guided by. And, you know, if you've got a problem, and it's ticking over in your brain at 2am, it can be very hard to get someone on the line for a bit of a decompress. But if you put on song music to take yourself and yeah, I think they've been the biggest continuous group of mentors, the bands that I love and follow, because there's there's always some song that leads to a problem that you've got.
Fiona Johnston 48:50
I love that so much. And that frontwoman of Avalon Snippers is it Amy. She's is the current.
Fiona Jeffries 48:59
She's one of the best front people in the world today. She is incredible at the her energy and her ability to hold a crowd. Yeah, Bon Scott is alive and he's beautiful.
Fiona Johnston 49:13
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? We definitely share a passion for live music. And you know that I suppose we could save that fairly guitar-heavy music and different varieties. And I think there's something that really can't be experienced anywhere other than in a live music setting. And it's primal, I suppose. Yeah, connective tissue that links everybody that's in that moment, that will never happen again.
Fiona Jeffries 49:46
That's right. And it's the feeding off of energy that they're the performance of wanting something from the audience to help elevate their performance. You're giving them that energy, they're feeding that back to you and it's this mutual extension, right? That's The only time that that will happen. And even, like, I'm not great with taking photos and videos at the best of times, but it's something you can't even capture on the phone or video like nothing that it's the immediacy of it. And in fact, sharing experiences is better if you put your phone away. Tool who I saw before, twice, before COVID happened just before it happened. They had a rule in their concerts. No, smartphones can be Yeah. Some people you know, snuck one in the final song I said, righto you've been good. You can film some of these. But they wanted you in the moment. They didn't want you to buy phones and retina or wait a minute, I've got a message Oh, yeah, what's going on with that? It's you really need to devote your full attention to something that isn't being pulled away by the smartphone, that the notifications and then the constant buzzing.
Fiona Johnston 50:57
I love that so much. I've been reflecting during my interviews with and writing about small business as a force for good. And I've been reflecting on exactly the same thing as cube, which is that musicians are such an amazing example of business owners who are using their platform as a force of what's good for them. Excuse my blowing hair
Fiona Jeffries 51:26
It's fantastic. It's almost like Bonny Tyler and Total Eclipse of the Heart. Keep it up.
Fiona Johnston 51:32
So I've been reflecting, you know, one of my favorite musicians of all time is Eddie Vedder. And, you know, every time I listen to the album, 10 I'm transported back to my early high school days. And I will I don't know that I'll ever love an album as much as that one.
Fiona Jeffries 51:52
Yeah, it can, it can be brought back in there kind of
Fiona Johnston 51:55
its ability to take you right back. And I love everything that I know about Eddie better. And, you know, he's been such an advocate for so many different things. You know, he's, he's stood up for many different communities outside of his own. He's rallied against big business trying to kind of profit from his ticket site, the ticket sales to his gigs. And I think there's been many examples of that, you know, the Dixie Chicks now known as The Chicks is another, you know, quite public example of people standing up for what they believe in. So I think more of us should be looking to the musicians that we love to say, Well, how is that person showing me how it's done?
Fiona Jeffries 52:40
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, just to just to have that art as that focus and but that doesn't exist in isolation. And people that enjoy the art are facing some difficult times and going through issues that that need to Yeah, have more support for behind it or just say, No, we're not. We're not standing for this. We're drawing a line in the sand.
Fiona Johnston 53:06
Thank you so much for sharing this. With me Fiona.
Fiona Jeffries 53:10
Really enjoyed it, Fiona and thank you very much for the invitation. And thanks so much for working alongside me and Diva. Were a better business for having you on board.
Fiona Johnston 53:18
That's a pleasure. Before I let you go, could you share with my community how they could connect with you? Coming up that you want to tell people about? Yeah, get to know you better?
Fiona Jeffries 53:30
Yeah, for sure. So you can always follow Diva Works. Diva.Works on Insta, and then my own Insta is Fiona F i o n a dot Jeffries' G double fer ies and sometime this year, I'll be launching my book say anything. When you could kind of non bullshit things to say when you don't know what to say? Yeah.
Fiona Johnston 53:55
Would you say that again? Please?
Fiona Jeffries 53:56
Yes, it's called I'd say it so quickly. It's called ‘Say anything good kind and non-shit things to say when you don't know what to say’. So just some guidance or some ideas about what you can say in tricky situations. Because I certainly found myself through COVID I I was worried that I was avoiding conversations because I didn't want to make things worse for people. And I didn't want that I think that's the worst of all options. Even if you say something that you think it's it hasn't come out the way I wanted it to it sounds plunky that's still better than just going you know someone may be having a hard time I don't know what to say someone say anything.
Fiona Johnston 54:39
Leaving and feeling even more isolated and more. Yeah, I love that. Well, I can't wait for your book to come out. So I get by on both coffees.
Fiona Jeffries 54:48
I think I might be putting money in the mouth here with a with a Pearl Jam.
Fiona Johnston 54:55
I love that. Thanks again, Fiona.
